I fail to understand the exceptionalist approach to Judaism and Jews. Many religions have been persecuted and some did not survive. The experiences of Jews are no different to the experiences of many other religious groups. Yes some Jews were persecuted in some places at some times but many others were not. Any group which sets itself apart and takes an elitist if not supremacist stance for any reason is likely to become a target at certain times. Not condoning, just explaining human realities.
And why would Jews have a right to a State when no other religion has such a right? If Jews did have that right and they do not, then every religion would have the same right.
Most Jews throughout history have been part of society to relatively successful degrees, just like any other religion. The Zionist and sometimes Jewish agenda to push for a State was as much propaganda and lies as any sort of truth.
If one were to believe that Jews needed their own State then why do most Jews not live in Israel, never did and never will and why have many Jews, particularly Orthodox, always rejected the concept of a Jewish State? More to the point, regardless of any belief that Jews need their own State the simple fact is they had no right to take someone else's country and set up their State.
Even worse, the sadistic and bestial nature of the Zionists, Jews and Israelis does not reflect Judaism or real Jews and in fact taints the religion and its followers. Israel is the most dangerous place any Jew could live and a travesty of their religion. Those who claim Israel represents Judaism and Jews are anti-semites proclaiming that Judaism and Jews support and promote occupation, colonisation, genocide, ethnic cleansing, rape, murder, torture, theft and sadistic cruelty toward non-Jews.
Jews do not need and neither do they have a right to a State and one look at Israel makes it clear that fascist religious states have no place in a civilized world.
You hit the nail on the head. My thoughts exactly. So many groups, not just religious ones, have been persecuted throughout history. There should never be a nation based on one’s religion in the first place. It’s absolutely absurd.
Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Egypt aas well as many other countries, e.g. in Asia and Africa are wholly Muslim or, if not, tolerate religious minorities. Large Jewish minorities in all of these countries have been reduced to near zero by ethnic cleansing. So much for your claim that there should never be a nation based on one's religion
You are talking about 'ethnic cleansing'. Imagine a grand ledger before you right now, with a vertical line down the middle. You can enter the verifiable body count of Jews killed by ethnic cleansing in these places, in the column on the left and the muslims killed by jews or western 'Christians' on the right. You may wish to brush up on scientific notation first.
In my lifetime alone, I have witnessed literally millions of muslims slaughtered and yet perhaps a few hundred jews or christians killed by muslims in the same period. So who is ethnically cleansing who ?
I like to put up a map of Israel from 1946 in that column on the left and a map from this year , on the right and get people like yourself to argue how the Palestinians are the problem using the irrefutable maps. It should be classic comedy of the absurd.
In either case, neither numbers or maps lie and I wish people would stop embarrassing both of us by attempting to do so.
Jews were as barbaric as any other religion in ancient times. They wandered into Palestine and set up camp about 3000 years ago. The Egyptians made a note when a tribe called Judah arrived. Colonists then as now. To be fair, in the times everyone was doing the same thing. The invasion of 1947/48 and the colonial State of Israel happened when everyone was not doing the same thing.
I always say the Jews of the late 19th/early 20th century were a bit late to the game of colonialism and are upset that contemporary folk don’t afford them the same barbarity of previous eras. They decided to colonise when colonialism was out of fashion & universal human rights started to become all the rage (ironically, in large part, because of their suffering). In other words, they have desperately been trying to have their cake and eat it since 1948..
We struggle to get the facts and the truth from events of the last 100 or even 20 years. Lets not cite alledged events that happened even before the invention of the printing press. 614 AD was back when everyone was slaughtering everyone, before anger management was invented.
If you want something a little more reliable to accuse Israelis of, in their treatment of Christians, search Youtube for Israelis spitting on Christians including Nuns and barring prelates from practicing their faith and carrying out church business .... all within the last couple years and captured on video.
Before the printing press there was papyrus and writings carved in stone. We know a lot more about such times than you think. It is because of ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs we know Palestine and Palestinians have existed for more than 5000 years and they invaded Egypt more than once.
The Zionists pushed, promoted and actively created false flags to bully, bribe, terrify Jews living safely in Arab and Muslim countries to become colonists in Palestine. More Zio lies. Most Iranian Jews did not fall for it and remained in their homeland.
When Europeans drove Jews out centuries ago it was the Arab and Muslim worlds which offered them sanctuary. Stick with facts, it works better.
As to a religion needing its own country, since most Jews do not, never did and never will live in what is called Israel we can safely conclude it was never necessary. The most dangerous place for a Jew is what is called Israel. The sickest culture in which anyone can live, including Jews, is Israel. How fortunate most do not live there.
In fact even after the horrors for Jews in WWII most did not choose to go to Palestine and what is called Israel as colonists.
None of those countries are "wholly Muslim". The Jewish minorities that were removed were removed through Mossad-generated bombings back in the 50's and 60's. Not ethnic cleansing on the part of those Arab (and Persian) countries. What are you? A bot?
I never said that they were wholly Muslim but they did have large Jewish populations but not any more. As for Mossad bombs to ‘persuade’ them to move to Israel I don’t know for certain whether that happened or not and you probably don’t know either. Muslims don’t treat minority faiths very well. There aren’t many Christian’s left in Bethlehem for instance. And Egypt doesn’t treat Coptic Christians very well either.
Actually, I do know because I grew up in the Middle East. When these false flag operations were being done in Syria in 1956 all Americans were kicked out temporarily to protect the sovereignty of the country--the CIA was working with Mossad in that case. And in Iran 40% of my graduating class were Iraqi Jews who were bribed by the Shah to take professional jobs--mostly in the oil fields--when Saddam Hussein first came to power in 1963. As Prof. Shlaim has written, many Iraqi Jews were convinced through terrorist violence to emigrate to Israel where they were treated extremely badly. Most Middle Eastern jews who emigrated to Israel ended up there in this manner and shared the same experience of racism by Ashkenazi as the Iraqi Jews of the early 1950's. My classmates moved as a large community, most of them related by blood in 1963, not so much because of the Mossad as because the Shah was offering them nice salaries. And after the Iranian Revolution they moved to other countries as a large community and most have done very well. Only a few went to Israel but left shortly thereafter because they were treated as servants, second-class citizens, there. Traditionally Muslims have treated their religious minorities quite well, in fact. Read up on the Islamic Empire which reached to Spain. It was the Christians who were particularly violent. Zionists are not very tolerant. They are currently trying to remove Christians of various tripes from the West Bank which is where most of the places Christians want to visit are. It sounds like they have bombed most Christian churches in Gaza to smithereens. They are very actively trying to steal the entire Armenian Quarter of Jerusalem. You sound like a representative of the Israeli propaganda machine. Knock yourself out. The truth is more effective. And long-lasting. I suggest you read some real history rather than bullshit the ZOA disseminates.
Thank you for a very interesting reply. I won’t argue with any of it. Partly because you are discussing events of which I have no knowledge and partly because I know that Ashkenazim were prejudiced against Jews of colour (and probably still are but to a lesser extent). Yemeni Jews had their babies stolen at birth, told they had died but there were no bodies to bury. They had been sold to adoptees. Ethiopian Jews had difficulty being accepted.
Christians leaving Bethlehem are not doing so because of any specific actions or pressure by Israel directed against the community.
I asked ChatGPT. This is its reply
“The Christian population of Bethlehem has decreased in recent years due to several factors:
1. **Political Instability and Conflict**: The Israeli-Palestinian conflict has significantly impacted the region, leading to a decline in the local economy and creating a challenging living environment. The construction of the Israeli separation barrier, restrictions on movement, and periodic violence have made life difficult for residents, prompting many to emigrate.
2. **Economic Hardships**: Bethlehem's economy, traditionally reliant on tourism, has suffered due to the political situation. Security concerns and travel restrictions have deterred tourists, reducing income for local businesses. Economic opportunities in Bethlehem are limited, pushing many, particularly Christians, to seek better prospects abroad.
3. **Emigration**: Many Christians in Bethlehem have emigrated to the West or other countries with more stable environments. The pull of better economic opportunities, combined with the push of local hardships, has led to a significant outflow of the Christian population.
4. **Demographic Changes**: The overall population in Bethlehem and the West Bank is growing, but the Christian community is shrinking proportionally due to lower birth rates compared to the Muslim population and higher emigration rates.
5. **Social Pressures**: Some Christians in Bethlehem have reported feeling increasing social pressures as a religious minority, which can contribute to their decision to leave.
These factors combined have led to a steady decline in the Christian population in Bethlehem, a trend seen in other parts of the Middle East as well.”
I suggest that the Jewish population of Iran would leave for other countries if they could. As it is, they are a captive population and have to be extremely careful to avoid being seen to give comfort in any way to Israel
The ethnic cleansing of Jews from Arab and North African countries post 1948 is a matter of record and parallels Arabs who left Palestine because of the Nakba during Israel’s War of Independence. Ethnic cleansing in these cases does not equate to lives lost.
Also, Muslim lives lost to Crusaders or military actions by Western nation both pre- and post-1948 are not directly the fault of Israel. Western nations have always had their own reasons for seeking hegemonic dominance of the area.
However, Israel does exact a very high price in Muslim Arab lives in retaliation for the lives of Jews killed by Palestinian Arabs who ‘resist’ occupation. This practice has not succeeded in deterring Arab resistance to occupation. It’s not that Arabs hold their lives more cheaply. Rather they welcome martyrdom in the service of Islam. This is at odds with Judeo-Christian values and is irreconcilable. There used to be a cadre of Israelis who understood the Arab psyche, spoke Arabic and knew how to live with them. There are fewer of them now, replaced by right-wing demagogues with an antipathy to Arabs which militates against compromise.
I'm sorry. Please expand. I do not understand either comment you have made here. How is "the claim of refugee to go to Israel is imagine building" related to "the asylum seekers coming across US south borders".
How long are you going to repeat the lies of the West? It’s really getting old. It’s also a matter of record that Muslims,Jews and Christians all got along before the Zionists came and stole land that didn’t belong to them. These religious groups all lived pretty much in peace before the Zionist influence. You spout stuff with no evidence. It’s not about Judaism. It’s about Zionism. You don’t even have to be Jewish to be a Zionist. This movement started way before the Holocaust. Please quit lying. Most Jews want nothing to do with Zionism. Listen to Holocaust survivors who have come out against Israel and people like Miko Peled who is a former IOF member and lived in Israel and whose father was a strong Zionist, but he chose to become an activist for a free Palestine. He is Israeli and Jewish, btw.
I try hard to tell the truth as I understand it to be. If I say something that can be proven to be categorically untrue I will apologise and not repeat it. Muslims, Jews and Christians did get along pretty well as long as the Christians and Jews knew their place as second class, paid their taxes and were useful. It didn’t always prevent the occasional massacre. As for stealing the land you should choose your words more carefully. Zionists bought the land with hard cash from Arab landowners. No land was stolen from individual Arabs. When independence was declared in 1948 properties vacated by Arabs were taken over and occupied (stolen if you like) by opportunist Jews but their actions were analogous to similar events in Arab countries which ethnically cleansed their Jewish populations and appropriated their assets without compensation. I know two wrongs don’t make a right but ‘Palestine’ prior to the arrival of Zionists had indigenous Jews as well as Arabs and the Jews hadn’t colonised it, the Arabs had.
Another Zio lie. Yes Zionists bought some land in Palestine through bullying, bribery and dishonesty but the amount was truly trivial. None of it gave them the right to take the whole country.
By your criteria because Jews own land in the US they can invade, occupy, set up their own State (well they have in a way) and treat Americans as they treat Palestinians.
SAME MISTAKE - remember, apples with apples. You cannot compare Jews, a religion, with Arabs a culture.
And let us not fib or actively lie. Palestine has a history going back more than 5000 years and it belongs to the Palestinian people, regardless of their religion. Palestine does not belong to Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindus or any other religion. It belongs to Palestinians and it will be free.
Two wrongs do not make a right and there is something truly evil about Jews doing to Christians and Muslims in Palestine what was done to many European Jews during WWII. And doing it for nearly 80 years not four or five. It is horrifying that Israeli Zio-Jewish culture teaches their children the concept of Untermenschen, that non-Jews are inferior and Palestinian non-Jews are not even human and can be crushed like insects. Just a nuisance that there is so much blood and not just some icky white goo.
I disagree the indigenous Jews were the ones who lived there with the indigenous Palestinians. I never said the Jews shouldn’t be there at all, but it’s the Zionists who are the problem. These groups were at peace with each other for the most part until the Zionists came.
No Jew has a right to claim a grain of sand on planet earth regardless of any reasons or excuses. Same for all religions.
No Jew has a right to Palestine and no human being has a right to take someone else's country with genocidal ethnic cleansing and then subject the native people who are left to a truly sadistic, bestial, cruel level of colonial savagery.
Israel is and was always illegal and immoral and its appalling and evil treatment of the Palestinians for nearly 80 years is a taint on Judaism and Jews and an abiding reason why Ziorael must be eradicated.
Muslims would rather live long lives than die young, the same as Jews or Christians or atheists. However, if reclaiming their ancestral lands will result from Palestinians dying, they will die for their land and, more importantly, for the next generations and for their parents' and grandparents' traumatic loss of rights. Jews and Christians also will die for their so-called "values". Look at how we treat American soldiers who die while "serving". (What a ridiculous word.) And how IDF who die in a war are treated as heroes. What did they do that was heroic? The "cadre of Israelis" who were more tuned into Arabs were actually Arabs, forcefully manipulated to emigrate from their natal Arab countries. Their kids are the assholes following right-wing demagogues. I think Ben Gvir is Iraqi Jewish. The other two--Smotrich and I can't remember his made-up name--are Ukrainian or Polish. Some people know Arabic to some degree. But the way colonialism works is the minority knows more of the majority culture than the majority knows the minority. That's why African-Americans know way more about European-American culture than European-Americans know of Black culture. They have to in order to survive. Anglos don't have to know shit. Jewish Israelis don't have to know shit. They don't even know how much of Palestinian culture they ape as "Israeli" culture. Israeli, my ass.
As far as Syria goes you should listen to Vanessa Beeley’s Substack. She is an expat who lives in Syria and knows what Israel and the U.S. have been doing to that country, bombing it always bombing Syria for no reason. It’s Israel that doesn’t want to live with other ethnic groups. Why do they bomb Syria, the Iranian consulate and kill the Hamas negotiator while he was a guest in Tehran?! Israel always starts bombing other countries like Syria, Lebanon and places in Iran without provocation. The murdered Hamas negotiator was not even a militant for Pete’s sake.
Israel bombs selected targets in Syria because Syria has allied with Iran and provides transit facilities for Iranian military advisers to its proxy Hezbollah, as well as advanced missiles and drones made by Iran destined for Hezbollah.
You are spouting and absolute faulted and absurdity not a single one of the air states expelled juice. There was some reaction among the population when Lebanon was attacked and much of it destroyed. But if you do some real research, you will find, for example, that a fundamental cornerstone of Islam is to respect and protect the people of the book Jews, and Christians as well as Muslims.
You have your facts all screwed up.. the reason those Arab countries were emptied of Jews (you call it ethnic cleansing) happened because of the creation of israel, the very point Roslyn was making.. it’s because of Israel that Jews became less safe in other countries: a state that decided to represent all Jews and this state is murderous and violent undermines their safety in the end. Here, I refer you to the British Jewish politician, Edwin Montagu who opposed the zionist project because it was antisemitic. On the matter, he states:
...I assume that it means that Mahommedans [Muslims] and Christians are to make way for the Jews and that the Jews should be put in all positions of preference and should be peculiarly associated with Palestine in the same way that England is with the English or France with the French, that Turks and other Mahommedans in Palestine will be regarded as foreigners, just in the same way as Jews will hereafter be treated as foreigners in every country but Palestine. Perhaps also citizenship must be granted only as a result of a religious test.
Also, pogroms and ethnic cleansing of Jews has always been a uniquely Christian phenomena and never a Muslim one. That’s why I say you have your facts all screwed up but it is expected since the western mind has been heavily propagandized (psy-oped) on this topic (& many others).
They are not wholly Muslim they are Muslim majority and they are nothing like Israel because they are not actively working to exterminate non-Muslims as Israel works to exterminate non-Jews. And the Jewish minorities were bullied and frightened into leaving by Zionist/Mossad violence not by the people of the country they called home for centuries.
No state has a right to exist. No religion has a right to a state or self determination and no-one for any reason has a right to take someone else's country by force and genocidal violence and then spend a century nearly subjecting the native people of the land they have stolen to truly sadistic and bestial military colonial occupation rule.
Israel is a disgrace and it must and will be dismantled. And for what it is worth, most Jews do not live in what is called Israel, never did and never will and if you claim Israel represents Judaism given its history of vile atrocities then you are an anti-semite expressing a hatred of Judaism and Jews.
"the sadistic and bestial nature of the Zionists, Jews and Israelis does not reflect Judaism or real Jews" ...?
Polls in Israel US UK would suggest this statement unfortunately, is incorrect. A fact which goes someway to explain Jewish history over the last 2000 years
All religions in their ancient writings are savages. Jews are no different. Judaism like all religions has much of worth and wisdom.
Israeli Jews are unique in their hatred and savagery and no doubt their supporters are equally brainwashed. However, that does not apply to Jews in general or to Judaism.
I have no doubt many Jews are ignorant of the bestial and sadistic cruelty toward the Palestinians and in many ways that is worse, because they should have done the research, than those who do know and yet promote it.
The Zionist/Jewish propaganda machine has been at work for more than a century and with control of the media there are many people who do not know and who should know the atrocities committed in the name of Israel. The Zio campaign to demonise Muslims has also been effective and many of those who support Israel do so because they hate and fear Muslims and not because they support Zioraeli atrocities. That does not make it right but it does explain how so many reasonably intelligent people can back the Israeli state.
It is wrong to condemn all followers of a religion for the barbarism of some of its ancient teachings, or indeed for the actions of some fanatics. Jews as a religion are no better or worse than anyone else.
One Rabbi’s opinion is just that - one opinion. His followers may or may not accept it and other Rabbis may agree or disagree. In practical terms, someone else’s kidneys might not be a good match. You can’t just pick someone off the street and steal a kidney.
The Talmud is not holy scripture. The Torah and Haftorah are holy. The Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmuds are collections of Rabbinical guidance and interpretations of Jewish Law. As such, they are not fixed for all time but reflect the circumstances of their day. Much like Islamic Hadiths they can be interpreted to suggest certain actions are lawful even though we would abhor them today. An example is the rape of a prisoner of war using an implement, an event which has caused both widespread revulsion and praise. Djamila Boupacha was similarly raped with a broken bottle during the Algerian war of independence. In war things happen.
If a priest or rector had suggested Christians can take the liver of a passing Jew the whole world and its dog would be screeching anti-semitism. The hypocrisy of Zionist is truly breathtaking
Even the jewish Old Testament (OT) , their Torah, is fallacious. Israeli Archeologist agrees with all other Archeologists that there was NEVER an "Exodus", as the OT Torah claims, of Hebrews, as "slaves" to Egypt. Ancient Egypt kept an extremely accurate history and no where in its history is there any mention of millions of Hebrews, There is absolutely Zero evidence of 2 million "Hebrews" living in the Desert, as the Torah (OT) claims.
Archeology says that the Hebrews originated in the land of Canaan and came out of the hills when Canaan was destroyed by Egypt.
Also---the fallacious Torah claims that David and Solomon had a vast Empire--but archeology finds only a small village.
The Torah (OT) was made up in 625 BC by the scribes of Judean King Josiah who produced it as a document aimed at unifying Northern Israel with Judea--in order to "Make Israel Great Again". There is zero evidence that the Old Testament bible is true. We Americans have been hood-winked.
The Jews are not simply followers of a religion. They are also a people, exiled from the land of their ancestors because they resisted Roman occupation. Whether Jews choose to live in Israel or not, their historical ties to the land are undeniable. They are, therefore, returnees not colonisers. But in returning to the land of their ancestors and displacing Arabs living there, themselves historically colonisers, they made a mistake. They should have been more prepared to share the land, which they may have to do eventually if they want peace with the Arabs. All of Palestine, Jordan and Israel, must be part of the solution
I feel sorry for Ashkenazi who swallow this lie. Their "ties" to the land are very recent indeed. Obviously. Look how badly they have polluted the land and the Mediterranean. They could give a damn.
Right and how many millions of Irish emigrants could say the same about Ireland , as but one example ? So we can all head back to Ireland now with our dual citizenship and start running everyone off their ancestral lands and should they complain, we just kill them and their kids. This argument of ancestral, historical claims going back thousands of years and many hundreds of generations is so absurd as to be OFF-SCALE Hilarious !! I mean it trumps the absurd scenario I just mentioned with the Irish or any other historical mass migrations. We Irish have somewhat of a paper trail. What do the zios got, a mark on some papyrus ?
I've got two years now in Canada to file a civil claim for losses and damages from the date I become aware of them but the zios get, what, 5,000 f'g years for a limitation period ? And their 'due process' is shooting children and burning them alive.
Don't try and suggest their is some sort of civil , rational underpinning to what the zios are doing. Their isn't. They are morally depraved, savage animals who have been brain washed by their families to believe they are the moral victims and the entitled.
Israeli colonizers are NOT "returnees"--as they are by DNA, Europeans who interbred with the smartest Europeans over the previous 2000 years. They are WHITE---not Tan-colored like the Palestinians and ancient Hebrews. Look at white Netanyahu and even the very white Hasides ( the guys with the black hats praying at the Wailing Wall) --who are very white Poles. Hebrews???---Ha-ha-ha.
Today's "Jews" are NOT Hebrews. Just look at them---They are mainly a white people, many with blond hair and blue eyes. Their DNA is predominantly European. with no more Near-Eastern DNA than people from Italy, Greece or Spain.
Israeli Zionist colonizers are Europeans with made-up "Hebrew "names and have zero claim to the land of the Palestinians. Netanyahu is Meilikovsky--a Russian. Ben Gurion was Gruen--a Pole. And the Zionist invaders were essentially Atheists--as are the preponderance of today's jews,
Contrary to the fallacy that they were "Ousted by the Romans"--history shows that they emigrated to other lands on their own.
"Whether Jews choose to live in Israel or not, their historical ties to the land are undeniable"
"Muslims ruled Jerusalem, and considered it holy, from 636 until 1917, with the exception of a period of less than a century" during which time Jews were not systematically slaughtered let alone genocided.
In the 1930's - Israel Chief Rabbi JH Sonnenfeld wrote "Zionists are "evil men & ruffians, Hell entered Israel with Herzl" (Wikipedia)
Just to inject some reality, no other religion has its own state? The Islamic Republic of Iran says "Hold my beer". I would be in favor of America boycotting these religious states and prohibiting our public officials from speaking about their religions. Given our history of colonialism, slavery, and religious persecution, we have failed the test of all men are equal before the law.
Iran has Christians and Jews as citizens. it does not consider them to be subhuman and Iran is an ancient country and culture and it was not founded in the name of their now majority religion regarding followers of all other religions as subhuman.
Iran is a Muslim majority State just as India is a Hindu majority state.
Gaza’s fate will be our own. Such unchecked evil has a way of normalizing bloodshed. The spineless complicity of democrats has brought us to this horror which will only escalate at the border, our Gaza.
Blame the Americans and their lackey, craven allies for the mess in Ukraine/Russia. And blame them for the mess in Palestine. All hegemonic game-playing of a very dangerous kind.
True, but if Trump were in charge, it would be socially acceptable among the upper classes to criticize the US administration which is the singular and indispensable enabler here
Both give a blank check. Republicans hand it over without being asked first. Democrats put on a show for their supporters like they’re hesitating, but deliver the same packages of weapons and unconditional diplomatic support
Did having “their own state” make the Zionists safe? It did not. Of course, it’s a trick question. They’ve never had their own state, they’ve only had a state stolen from the Palestinians. Even a hermit crab generally has the good sense to wait till a shell is empty before it moves in.
Palestinians had their own state but that didn’t save them either because it was taken from them under the specious slogan: “A state without people for a people without a state.”
So, round and round it goes. Military power is not the answer because nations, empires, are most often destroyed from within, as Israel is collapsing now: not from lack of power, but from lack of a moral center. The American Empire will soon join them in the rear view mirror. Too much power and no moral center. In simple Greek: Hubris.
What was the name of the other one that was drowned by Ansarallah this past week which no one is talking about? Eisenhower, wasn't it? How invincible is the US military!!!
Jesus, this is vapidity and so wrong, and not true to history.
ZIONISM is Jewish Supremacy. The lies about Jews being "mistreated" in the world for eons is because they had no state?
"To take this one step further, Jews have suffered enormously over time, in good part because they did not have their own state. Zionism, which is all about creating and maintaining a powerful Jewish state, was aimed at fixing this problem. One might think that a people who see themselves as “eternal victims” would have some measure of introspection and sympathy for the Palestinians — and given the Holocaust, be horrified by the mere possibility of genocide being committed in their name. But that is not happening."
+--+
Zion, this Jewish Murdering Raping Staving Poisoning Maiming Occupying Neurotic Religious Extremist State in Palestine is about a greater Israel, is about destroying Islam, dude.
Behind Israel’s ‘end game’ for Gaza: Theft of offshore gas reserves
The war on Gaza is also an Israeli drive to seize Palestinian gas reserves
The Palestinians may well get their own state - the world, especially the global south, is with them.
In fact there is a serious divide between the ordinary people of Europe and the heads of state, which may prove problematical for democracy - and the heads of state.
100%. There certainly is no help - or even a thought - from the Democratic Party. Biden is by far the most genocidal president, perhaps since they were the party of Black subjugation and lynchings. Looking back at their transformation, it's hard not to agree with Caitlin Johnstone: the empire is the issue. A step in a positive direction for America would be Jill Stein, but the DNC is doing everything is their power to keep her silenced. We are no better off in Canada (or in my second home, Italy). #freepalestine
Their own state is the only answer. All Palestinians are blamed for what Hamas did, yet Palestinians have no control over Hamas. They would have control over their own national security forces if they were a nation with its own soverignty.
In fact, Hamas was created by Israel to maintain Israeli government control over the imprisoned--for 75+ years--Palestinians. As primitive as this is and, maybe because of its stark savagery, this genocide will spark an opposite reaction: peaceful co-existence. Many peoples on the globe already embrace this concept, particularly in Asia. Someone, however, has to control the US Military Industrial Complex, which benefits greatly from its promotion of conflicts.. Maybe that's our job! Young people demonstrating (as my generation did against the Vietnam horror show) and rejecting "opportunities" to join the military are certainly doing their part.
Henry Kissinger used to practice Realpolitik, but he got fuzzy there at the end where he suddenly thought taking Ukraine into NATO was a good idea. I have a feeling by then it was his trusty aides who were writing for him. We need a HUGE measure of realism now. I am not even sure we can avoid the catastrophe we have provoked around the globe with our endless weapons provisioning and war-prodding. The world is on edge, but few are the leaders.
I'm a bit hesitant. Russia and China were also realpolitikers. I recall going to Honduras on the eve of the elections, in the 1980s (late) when party primaries were impending, and I had to dive in and get to know one party about to vote. From that moment, the OTHER party identified me as WITH the other party, and though I dined them in my home and enjoyed them, I became a football. I was this, or that, or not. But I was really nothing. Kissinger was not Svengali. Think of the nationalist corruption in those years that fed Kissinger's power -- not American thinking. It was REALPOLITIK. Morality -- not anywhere near there. In Vietnam, Laos, Burma -- corruption helped grease the US skids.
Kissinger was a realist, and he understood one cannot go backwards in time. Ukraine is in NATO, de facto, and this fact cannot be changed except by overwhelming conventional military force that Russia doesn’t have or nuclear force that Russia isn’t willing to use.
Ukraine exists today as a de facto NATO member, although somewhat smaller in size from original. Exact borders, of somewhat smaller Ukraine would be decided in negotiations, before the ceasefire in realist’s world
where did all that come from -- the mixture of fact and fantasy? Ukraine ain't in NATO and if you think it is, wait for the encirclement of Kursk and the wiping out of those forces. See if NATO declares war openly, like an honest organization, or just digs around in other people's shit looking for how to set it on fire. The US is the premier state sponsor of terrorism and a rogue nation that refuses to recognize international law. Its henchmen in Europe are just our lackeys, no sovereignty, no will of their own, and with their economies bending at the knees. The glorious warmaking west will get what it earns and though we must all pay for Americans' stupid arrogance, it will be worth it to see the mighty fall.
"In such a world, the best way to survive is to have a state of your own and make sure that state has a lot of military power. This is what we realists call a self-help world."
Then the other guy has to do the same and what you get is ... what we've got.
That's the same logic that's made the US the biggest gun owning country in the world and given it the firearm death rate it has.
Nearly half of those firearm induced homicides are via suicide, and concentrated in a handful of zip codes, where drug-gang activity is highest (per FBI statistics).
Fact is Americans keep buying guns because they're (rightly) terrified of all the Americans buying guns.
Whether they then use those guns to shoot themselves in an impulsive act that may not have happened if they'd had to take the time to find somewhere to tie a rope or their teenage son opens the gun safe and tops himself after his girlfriend dumps him or their toddler reaches into Mommy's handbag and inadvertently blew her head off in a supermarket or a dispute with a neighbor escalated to a lethal shootout or a cop blew him away because he couldn't see what he was reaching towards during a traffic stop and knew a lot of Americans have guns in their cars, the toe-tagged outcome is the same and the cause is the same. People substituting firepower for communication, lethality for security and weaponry for trust.
Israel is a state for some Jews but not for others. Read this substack from Jonathan Cook:
Jonathan Freedland rewrites history to hide an ugly truth about Israel
The Guardian columnist has to twist the story of the first Jew to escape Auschwitz because a true biography of Rudolf Vrba would expose the Zionist movement's collusion with the Nazis
JONATHAN COOK
AUG 25
The Palestinian state is coming right up. Isolated geographical location is a better protection than a military. Unfortunately everyone and his brother wants a piece of Palestine. But US imperialism and British colonialism are on their way out. The airport at Tel Aviv is closed for two days and it's friggin' CROWDED with American and European Jews trying to get the hell out. And this was just a little volley. What will they do when they face a serious attack, I wonder? Not even Netanyahu is safe. The Russians have weapons that can bust his bunker but good. Reminds me of the last days of Hitler. No wonder. The relationship between the Nazis and the Zionists was knicker-tight. Speaking of knickers, does Netanyahu have a mistress like Hitler did to keep his time in his hidey-hole copacetic?
This strategy only works if the state being created is governed by rational realists. It kind of falls apart when one side is willing to have its state bombed into oblivion and its people massacred simply to kill the other side. (Well, unless you don't actually give a crap if 10M Jews are massacred, incinerated or pushed off their land -- again.)
A 2 state requires both sides to be willing to live with the other as a neighbor. Absent that, it can also work if each is so afraid of the other they dare not antagonize them (that's MAD). Neither of those situations exist in Israel/Gaza/WB/Lebanon.
Thus, from a realist perspective, Israel will need to have military control over Gaza for the foreseeable future.
I fail to understand the exceptionalist approach to Judaism and Jews. Many religions have been persecuted and some did not survive. The experiences of Jews are no different to the experiences of many other religious groups. Yes some Jews were persecuted in some places at some times but many others were not. Any group which sets itself apart and takes an elitist if not supremacist stance for any reason is likely to become a target at certain times. Not condoning, just explaining human realities.
And why would Jews have a right to a State when no other religion has such a right? If Jews did have that right and they do not, then every religion would have the same right.
Most Jews throughout history have been part of society to relatively successful degrees, just like any other religion. The Zionist and sometimes Jewish agenda to push for a State was as much propaganda and lies as any sort of truth.
If one were to believe that Jews needed their own State then why do most Jews not live in Israel, never did and never will and why have many Jews, particularly Orthodox, always rejected the concept of a Jewish State? More to the point, regardless of any belief that Jews need their own State the simple fact is they had no right to take someone else's country and set up their State.
Even worse, the sadistic and bestial nature of the Zionists, Jews and Israelis does not reflect Judaism or real Jews and in fact taints the religion and its followers. Israel is the most dangerous place any Jew could live and a travesty of their religion. Those who claim Israel represents Judaism and Jews are anti-semites proclaiming that Judaism and Jews support and promote occupation, colonisation, genocide, ethnic cleansing, rape, murder, torture, theft and sadistic cruelty toward non-Jews.
Jews do not need and neither do they have a right to a State and one look at Israel makes it clear that fascist religious states have no place in a civilized world.
You hit the nail on the head. My thoughts exactly. So many groups, not just religious ones, have been persecuted throughout history. There should never be a nation based on one’s religion in the first place. It’s absolutely absurd.
Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Egypt aas well as many other countries, e.g. in Asia and Africa are wholly Muslim or, if not, tolerate religious minorities. Large Jewish minorities in all of these countries have been reduced to near zero by ethnic cleansing. So much for your claim that there should never be a nation based on one's religion
The Mossad planted bombs in Iraqi Synagogues in the 1950's to hasten Iraqi Jews move to Israel.
You are talking about 'ethnic cleansing'. Imagine a grand ledger before you right now, with a vertical line down the middle. You can enter the verifiable body count of Jews killed by ethnic cleansing in these places, in the column on the left and the muslims killed by jews or western 'Christians' on the right. You may wish to brush up on scientific notation first.
In my lifetime alone, I have witnessed literally millions of muslims slaughtered and yet perhaps a few hundred jews or christians killed by muslims in the same period. So who is ethnically cleansing who ?
I like to put up a map of Israel from 1946 in that column on the left and a map from this year , on the right and get people like yourself to argue how the Palestinians are the problem using the irrefutable maps. It should be classic comedy of the absurd.
In either case, neither numbers or maps lie and I wish people would stop embarrassing both of us by attempting to do so.
Jews slaughtered upwards of 50K Christian at the Mamilla Pool in 614 AD until the Persians finally stopped them.
Jews were as barbaric as any other religion in ancient times. They wandered into Palestine and set up camp about 3000 years ago. The Egyptians made a note when a tribe called Judah arrived. Colonists then as now. To be fair, in the times everyone was doing the same thing. The invasion of 1947/48 and the colonial State of Israel happened when everyone was not doing the same thing.
I always say the Jews of the late 19th/early 20th century were a bit late to the game of colonialism and are upset that contemporary folk don’t afford them the same barbarity of previous eras. They decided to colonise when colonialism was out of fashion & universal human rights started to become all the rage (ironically, in large part, because of their suffering). In other words, they have desperately been trying to have their cake and eat it since 1948..
We struggle to get the facts and the truth from events of the last 100 or even 20 years. Lets not cite alledged events that happened even before the invention of the printing press. 614 AD was back when everyone was slaughtering everyone, before anger management was invented.
If you want something a little more reliable to accuse Israelis of, in their treatment of Christians, search Youtube for Israelis spitting on Christians including Nuns and barring prelates from practicing their faith and carrying out church business .... all within the last couple years and captured on video.
Before the printing press there was papyrus and writings carved in stone. We know a lot more about such times than you think. It is because of ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs we know Palestine and Palestinians have existed for more than 5000 years and they invaded Egypt more than once.
https://www.jpost.com/local-israel/in-jerusalem/massacre-at-mamilla
Never heard of that event.
The Zionists pushed, promoted and actively created false flags to bully, bribe, terrify Jews living safely in Arab and Muslim countries to become colonists in Palestine. More Zio lies. Most Iranian Jews did not fall for it and remained in their homeland.
When Europeans drove Jews out centuries ago it was the Arab and Muslim worlds which offered them sanctuary. Stick with facts, it works better.
As to a religion needing its own country, since most Jews do not, never did and never will live in what is called Israel we can safely conclude it was never necessary. The most dangerous place for a Jew is what is called Israel. The sickest culture in which anyone can live, including Jews, is Israel. How fortunate most do not live there.
In fact even after the horrors for Jews in WWII most did not choose to go to Palestine and what is called Israel as colonists.
None of those countries are "wholly Muslim". The Jewish minorities that were removed were removed through Mossad-generated bombings back in the 50's and 60's. Not ethnic cleansing on the part of those Arab (and Persian) countries. What are you? A bot?
I never said that they were wholly Muslim but they did have large Jewish populations but not any more. As for Mossad bombs to ‘persuade’ them to move to Israel I don’t know for certain whether that happened or not and you probably don’t know either. Muslims don’t treat minority faiths very well. There aren’t many Christian’s left in Bethlehem for instance. And Egypt doesn’t treat Coptic Christians very well either.
Actually, I do know because I grew up in the Middle East. When these false flag operations were being done in Syria in 1956 all Americans were kicked out temporarily to protect the sovereignty of the country--the CIA was working with Mossad in that case. And in Iran 40% of my graduating class were Iraqi Jews who were bribed by the Shah to take professional jobs--mostly in the oil fields--when Saddam Hussein first came to power in 1963. As Prof. Shlaim has written, many Iraqi Jews were convinced through terrorist violence to emigrate to Israel where they were treated extremely badly. Most Middle Eastern jews who emigrated to Israel ended up there in this manner and shared the same experience of racism by Ashkenazi as the Iraqi Jews of the early 1950's. My classmates moved as a large community, most of them related by blood in 1963, not so much because of the Mossad as because the Shah was offering them nice salaries. And after the Iranian Revolution they moved to other countries as a large community and most have done very well. Only a few went to Israel but left shortly thereafter because they were treated as servants, second-class citizens, there. Traditionally Muslims have treated their religious minorities quite well, in fact. Read up on the Islamic Empire which reached to Spain. It was the Christians who were particularly violent. Zionists are not very tolerant. They are currently trying to remove Christians of various tripes from the West Bank which is where most of the places Christians want to visit are. It sounds like they have bombed most Christian churches in Gaza to smithereens. They are very actively trying to steal the entire Armenian Quarter of Jerusalem. You sound like a representative of the Israeli propaganda machine. Knock yourself out. The truth is more effective. And long-lasting. I suggest you read some real history rather than bullshit the ZOA disseminates.
Thank you for a very interesting reply. I won’t argue with any of it. Partly because you are discussing events of which I have no knowledge and partly because I know that Ashkenazim were prejudiced against Jews of colour (and probably still are but to a lesser extent). Yemeni Jews had their babies stolen at birth, told they had died but there were no bodies to bury. They had been sold to adoptees. Ethiopian Jews had difficulty being accepted.
If Muslims do not treat minority faiths very well how do you explain so many Jews remaining in Iran?
The Jews are killing and expelling Christians in Bethlehem not Muslims.
Egypt does not treat anyone very well as a US/Israeli stooge most of the time.
Christians leaving Bethlehem are not doing so because of any specific actions or pressure by Israel directed against the community.
I asked ChatGPT. This is its reply
“The Christian population of Bethlehem has decreased in recent years due to several factors:
1. **Political Instability and Conflict**: The Israeli-Palestinian conflict has significantly impacted the region, leading to a decline in the local economy and creating a challenging living environment. The construction of the Israeli separation barrier, restrictions on movement, and periodic violence have made life difficult for residents, prompting many to emigrate.
2. **Economic Hardships**: Bethlehem's economy, traditionally reliant on tourism, has suffered due to the political situation. Security concerns and travel restrictions have deterred tourists, reducing income for local businesses. Economic opportunities in Bethlehem are limited, pushing many, particularly Christians, to seek better prospects abroad.
3. **Emigration**: Many Christians in Bethlehem have emigrated to the West or other countries with more stable environments. The pull of better economic opportunities, combined with the push of local hardships, has led to a significant outflow of the Christian population.
4. **Demographic Changes**: The overall population in Bethlehem and the West Bank is growing, but the Christian community is shrinking proportionally due to lower birth rates compared to the Muslim population and higher emigration rates.
5. **Social Pressures**: Some Christians in Bethlehem have reported feeling increasing social pressures as a religious minority, which can contribute to their decision to leave.
These factors combined have led to a steady decline in the Christian population in Bethlehem, a trend seen in other parts of the Middle East as well.”
I suggest that the Jewish population of Iran would leave for other countries if they could. As it is, they are a captive population and have to be extremely careful to avoid being seen to give comfort in any way to Israel
The ethnic cleansing of Jews from Arab and North African countries post 1948 is a matter of record and parallels Arabs who left Palestine because of the Nakba during Israel’s War of Independence. Ethnic cleansing in these cases does not equate to lives lost.
Also, Muslim lives lost to Crusaders or military actions by Western nation both pre- and post-1948 are not directly the fault of Israel. Western nations have always had their own reasons for seeking hegemonic dominance of the area.
However, Israel does exact a very high price in Muslim Arab lives in retaliation for the lives of Jews killed by Palestinian Arabs who ‘resist’ occupation. This practice has not succeeded in deterring Arab resistance to occupation. It’s not that Arabs hold their lives more cheaply. Rather they welcome martyrdom in the service of Islam. This is at odds with Judeo-Christian values and is irreconcilable. There used to be a cadre of Israelis who understood the Arab psyche, spoke Arabic and knew how to live with them. There are fewer of them now, replaced by right-wing demagogues with an antipathy to Arabs which militates against compromise.
Yes. A Hasbara bot.
Only links?
I think the claim of refugee to go to Israel is image building or like all the asylum seekers coming across US south borders.
I'm sorry. Please expand. I do not understand either comment you have made here. How is "the claim of refugee to go to Israel is imagine building" related to "the asylum seekers coming across US south borders".
How long are you going to repeat the lies of the West? It’s really getting old. It’s also a matter of record that Muslims,Jews and Christians all got along before the Zionists came and stole land that didn’t belong to them. These religious groups all lived pretty much in peace before the Zionist influence. You spout stuff with no evidence. It’s not about Judaism. It’s about Zionism. You don’t even have to be Jewish to be a Zionist. This movement started way before the Holocaust. Please quit lying. Most Jews want nothing to do with Zionism. Listen to Holocaust survivors who have come out against Israel and people like Miko Peled who is a former IOF member and lived in Israel and whose father was a strong Zionist, but he chose to become an activist for a free Palestine. He is Israeli and Jewish, btw.
I try hard to tell the truth as I understand it to be. If I say something that can be proven to be categorically untrue I will apologise and not repeat it. Muslims, Jews and Christians did get along pretty well as long as the Christians and Jews knew their place as second class, paid their taxes and were useful. It didn’t always prevent the occasional massacre. As for stealing the land you should choose your words more carefully. Zionists bought the land with hard cash from Arab landowners. No land was stolen from individual Arabs. When independence was declared in 1948 properties vacated by Arabs were taken over and occupied (stolen if you like) by opportunist Jews but their actions were analogous to similar events in Arab countries which ethnically cleansed their Jewish populations and appropriated their assets without compensation. I know two wrongs don’t make a right but ‘Palestine’ prior to the arrival of Zionists had indigenous Jews as well as Arabs and the Jews hadn’t colonised it, the Arabs had.
Another Zio lie. Yes Zionists bought some land in Palestine through bullying, bribery and dishonesty but the amount was truly trivial. None of it gave them the right to take the whole country.
By your criteria because Jews own land in the US they can invade, occupy, set up their own State (well they have in a way) and treat Americans as they treat Palestinians.
SAME MISTAKE - remember, apples with apples. You cannot compare Jews, a religion, with Arabs a culture.
And let us not fib or actively lie. Palestine has a history going back more than 5000 years and it belongs to the Palestinian people, regardless of their religion. Palestine does not belong to Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindus or any other religion. It belongs to Palestinians and it will be free.
Two wrongs do not make a right and there is something truly evil about Jews doing to Christians and Muslims in Palestine what was done to many European Jews during WWII. And doing it for nearly 80 years not four or five. It is horrifying that Israeli Zio-Jewish culture teaches their children the concept of Untermenschen, that non-Jews are inferior and Palestinian non-Jews are not even human and can be crushed like insects. Just a nuisance that there is so much blood and not just some icky white goo.
I disagree the indigenous Jews were the ones who lived there with the indigenous Palestinians. I never said the Jews shouldn’t be there at all, but it’s the Zionists who are the problem. These groups were at peace with each other for the most part until the Zionists came.
No Jew has a right to claim a grain of sand on planet earth regardless of any reasons or excuses. Same for all religions.
No Jew has a right to Palestine and no human being has a right to take someone else's country with genocidal ethnic cleansing and then subject the native people who are left to a truly sadistic, bestial, cruel level of colonial savagery.
Israel is and was always illegal and immoral and its appalling and evil treatment of the Palestinians for nearly 80 years is a taint on Judaism and Jews and an abiding reason why Ziorael must be eradicated.
Muslims would rather live long lives than die young, the same as Jews or Christians or atheists. However, if reclaiming their ancestral lands will result from Palestinians dying, they will die for their land and, more importantly, for the next generations and for their parents' and grandparents' traumatic loss of rights. Jews and Christians also will die for their so-called "values". Look at how we treat American soldiers who die while "serving". (What a ridiculous word.) And how IDF who die in a war are treated as heroes. What did they do that was heroic? The "cadre of Israelis" who were more tuned into Arabs were actually Arabs, forcefully manipulated to emigrate from their natal Arab countries. Their kids are the assholes following right-wing demagogues. I think Ben Gvir is Iraqi Jewish. The other two--Smotrich and I can't remember his made-up name--are Ukrainian or Polish. Some people know Arabic to some degree. But the way colonialism works is the minority knows more of the majority culture than the majority knows the minority. That's why African-Americans know way more about European-American culture than European-Americans know of Black culture. They have to in order to survive. Anglos don't have to know shit. Jewish Israelis don't have to know shit. They don't even know how much of Palestinian culture they ape as "Israeli" culture. Israeli, my ass.
As far as Syria goes you should listen to Vanessa Beeley’s Substack. She is an expat who lives in Syria and knows what Israel and the U.S. have been doing to that country, bombing it always bombing Syria for no reason. It’s Israel that doesn’t want to live with other ethnic groups. Why do they bomb Syria, the Iranian consulate and kill the Hamas negotiator while he was a guest in Tehran?! Israel always starts bombing other countries like Syria, Lebanon and places in Iran without provocation. The murdered Hamas negotiator was not even a militant for Pete’s sake.
Yes I do read her.
Israel bombs selected targets in Syria because Syria has allied with Iran and provides transit facilities for Iranian military advisers to its proxy Hezbollah, as well as advanced missiles and drones made by Iran destined for Hezbollah.
You are spouting and absolute faulted and absurdity not a single one of the air states expelled juice. There was some reaction among the population when Lebanon was attacked and much of it destroyed. But if you do some real research, you will find, for example, that a fundamental cornerstone of Islam is to respect and protect the people of the book Jews, and Christians as well as Muslims.
You have your facts all screwed up.. the reason those Arab countries were emptied of Jews (you call it ethnic cleansing) happened because of the creation of israel, the very point Roslyn was making.. it’s because of Israel that Jews became less safe in other countries: a state that decided to represent all Jews and this state is murderous and violent undermines their safety in the end. Here, I refer you to the British Jewish politician, Edwin Montagu who opposed the zionist project because it was antisemitic. On the matter, he states:
...I assume that it means that Mahommedans [Muslims] and Christians are to make way for the Jews and that the Jews should be put in all positions of preference and should be peculiarly associated with Palestine in the same way that England is with the English or France with the French, that Turks and other Mahommedans in Palestine will be regarded as foreigners, just in the same way as Jews will hereafter be treated as foreigners in every country but Palestine. Perhaps also citizenship must be granted only as a result of a religious test.
Also, pogroms and ethnic cleansing of Jews has always been a uniquely Christian phenomena and never a Muslim one. That’s why I say you have your facts all screwed up but it is expected since the western mind has been heavily propagandized (psy-oped) on this topic (& many others).
They are not wholly Muslim they are Muslim majority and they are nothing like Israel because they are not actively working to exterminate non-Muslims as Israel works to exterminate non-Jews. And the Jewish minorities were bullied and frightened into leaving by Zionist/Mossad violence not by the people of the country they called home for centuries.
No state has a right to exist. No religion has a right to a state or self determination and no-one for any reason has a right to take someone else's country by force and genocidal violence and then spend a century nearly subjecting the native people of the land they have stolen to truly sadistic and bestial military colonial occupation rule.
Israel is a disgrace and it must and will be dismantled. And for what it is worth, most Jews do not live in what is called Israel, never did and never will and if you claim Israel represents Judaism given its history of vile atrocities then you are an anti-semite expressing a hatred of Judaism and Jews.
It's like my aryan brother never heard of Dar Es Salaam the house of Islam or any Caliphate... :/
Crusaders also asserted the right to their own state
Bingo.
Just read the Jewish TALMUD (the Jewish Holy Scripture) to see why Zionism calls non-Jews "Animals".
Just read the Jewish TALMUD to see why there has been 2000 years of Anti-Jewishness
( called" Anti-Semitism" to fool people into thinking that the reason Judaism is widely disrespected is because they are "from the Near-East" )
"the sadistic and bestial nature of the Zionists, Jews and Israelis does not reflect Judaism or real Jews" ...?
Polls in Israel US UK would suggest this statement unfortunately, is incorrect. A fact which goes someway to explain Jewish history over the last 2000 years
All religions in their ancient writings are savages. Jews are no different. Judaism like all religions has much of worth and wisdom.
Israeli Jews are unique in their hatred and savagery and no doubt their supporters are equally brainwashed. However, that does not apply to Jews in general or to Judaism.
I have no doubt many Jews are ignorant of the bestial and sadistic cruelty toward the Palestinians and in many ways that is worse, because they should have done the research, than those who do know and yet promote it.
The Zionist/Jewish propaganda machine has been at work for more than a century and with control of the media there are many people who do not know and who should know the atrocities committed in the name of Israel. The Zio campaign to demonise Muslims has also been effective and many of those who support Israel do so because they hate and fear Muslims and not because they support Zioraeli atrocities. That does not make it right but it does explain how so many reasonably intelligent people can back the Israeli state.
Read the Jewish Talmud holy scripture to see why there has been 2000 years of not liking God's " Chosen People"
It is wrong to condemn all followers of a religion for the barbarism of some of its ancient teachings, or indeed for the actions of some fanatics. Jews as a religion are no better or worse than anyone else.
"Jews as a religion are no better or worse than anyone else"?
I'm not aware of any other religion which claims: ...Rabbi Ginzburg states "if a Jew needs a liver, he may kill a passing non-Jew & take his"
https://ifamericansknew.org/cur_sit/shahak.html
One Rabbi’s opinion is just that - one opinion. His followers may or may not accept it and other Rabbis may agree or disagree. In practical terms, someone else’s kidneys might not be a good match. You can’t just pick someone off the street and steal a kidney.
All religions have barbaric ancient teachings. It is not fair to condemn all for those barbaric teachings.
The Talmud is not holy scripture. The Torah and Haftorah are holy. The Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmuds are collections of Rabbinical guidance and interpretations of Jewish Law. As such, they are not fixed for all time but reflect the circumstances of their day. Much like Islamic Hadiths they can be interpreted to suggest certain actions are lawful even though we would abhor them today. An example is the rape of a prisoner of war using an implement, an event which has caused both widespread revulsion and praise. Djamila Boupacha was similarly raped with a broken bottle during the Algerian war of independence. In war things happen.
Has caused widespread revulsion AND PRAISE
If a priest or rector had suggested Christians can take the liver of a passing Jew the whole world and its dog would be screeching anti-semitism. The hypocrisy of Zionist is truly breathtaking
Well said. Temur slaughtered people on his march to Delhi. History is full of such instances.
Even the jewish Old Testament (OT) , their Torah, is fallacious. Israeli Archeologist agrees with all other Archeologists that there was NEVER an "Exodus", as the OT Torah claims, of Hebrews, as "slaves" to Egypt. Ancient Egypt kept an extremely accurate history and no where in its history is there any mention of millions of Hebrews, There is absolutely Zero evidence of 2 million "Hebrews" living in the Desert, as the Torah (OT) claims.
Archeology says that the Hebrews originated in the land of Canaan and came out of the hills when Canaan was destroyed by Egypt.
Also---the fallacious Torah claims that David and Solomon had a vast Empire--but archeology finds only a small village.
The Torah (OT) was made up in 625 BC by the scribes of Judean King Josiah who produced it as a document aimed at unifying Northern Israel with Judea--in order to "Make Israel Great Again". There is zero evidence that the Old Testament bible is true. We Americans have been hood-winked.
The Jews are not simply followers of a religion. They are also a people, exiled from the land of their ancestors because they resisted Roman occupation. Whether Jews choose to live in Israel or not, their historical ties to the land are undeniable. They are, therefore, returnees not colonisers. But in returning to the land of their ancestors and displacing Arabs living there, themselves historically colonisers, they made a mistake. They should have been more prepared to share the land, which they may have to do eventually if they want peace with the Arabs. All of Palestine, Jordan and Israel, must be part of the solution
"their historical ties to the land are undeniable"
Actually, it is very questionable whether modern European Jews, mainly Ashkenazi, have historical ties to Palestine.
... but why let facts get in the way of an 'undeniable' great story from the perpetual victims ? Are you questioning Charlton Heston ?
I feel sorry for Ashkenazi who swallow this lie. Their "ties" to the land are very recent indeed. Obviously. Look how badly they have polluted the land and the Mediterranean. They could give a damn.
There are no religious ties to any land anywhere. If there were then all religions could claim any country or land where followers have lived.
Muslims ruled India for 600 years and most of Spain and much of Europe for centuries. You are saying they can claim it.
Christians ruled Istanbul and parts of Turkey for more than a thousand years and you are saying they can claim it and not be colonisers. Ridiculous.
Jews like any religion have no right to claim a grain of sand on planet earth regardless of any religious fairy stories they may have about it.
Jews have no right to Palestine. never did and never will.
Right and how many millions of Irish emigrants could say the same about Ireland , as but one example ? So we can all head back to Ireland now with our dual citizenship and start running everyone off their ancestral lands and should they complain, we just kill them and their kids. This argument of ancestral, historical claims going back thousands of years and many hundreds of generations is so absurd as to be OFF-SCALE Hilarious !! I mean it trumps the absurd scenario I just mentioned with the Irish or any other historical mass migrations. We Irish have somewhat of a paper trail. What do the zios got, a mark on some papyrus ?
I've got two years now in Canada to file a civil claim for losses and damages from the date I become aware of them but the zios get, what, 5,000 f'g years for a limitation period ? And their 'due process' is shooting children and burning them alive.
Don't try and suggest their is some sort of civil , rational underpinning to what the zios are doing. Their isn't. They are morally depraved, savage animals who have been brain washed by their families to believe they are the moral victims and the entitled.
Israeli colonizers are NOT "returnees"--as they are by DNA, Europeans who interbred with the smartest Europeans over the previous 2000 years. They are WHITE---not Tan-colored like the Palestinians and ancient Hebrews. Look at white Netanyahu and even the very white Hasides ( the guys with the black hats praying at the Wailing Wall) --who are very white Poles. Hebrews???---Ha-ha-ha.
Today's "Jews" are NOT Hebrews. Just look at them---They are mainly a white people, many with blond hair and blue eyes. Their DNA is predominantly European. with no more Near-Eastern DNA than people from Italy, Greece or Spain.
Israeli Zionist colonizers are Europeans with made-up "Hebrew "names and have zero claim to the land of the Palestinians. Netanyahu is Meilikovsky--a Russian. Ben Gurion was Gruen--a Pole. And the Zionist invaders were essentially Atheists--as are the preponderance of today's jews,
Contrary to the fallacy that they were "Ousted by the Romans"--history shows that they emigrated to other lands on their own.
"Whether Jews choose to live in Israel or not, their historical ties to the land are undeniable"
"Muslims ruled Jerusalem, and considered it holy, from 636 until 1917, with the exception of a period of less than a century" during which time Jews were not systematically slaughtered let alone genocided.
In the 1930's - Israel Chief Rabbi JH Sonnenfeld wrote "Zionists are "evil men & ruffians, Hell entered Israel with Herzl" (Wikipedia)
Just to inject some reality, no other religion has its own state? The Islamic Republic of Iran says "Hold my beer". I would be in favor of America boycotting these religious states and prohibiting our public officials from speaking about their religions. Given our history of colonialism, slavery, and religious persecution, we have failed the test of all men are equal before the law.
Iran has Christians and Jews as citizens. it does not consider them to be subhuman and Iran is an ancient country and culture and it was not founded in the name of their now majority religion regarding followers of all other religions as subhuman.
Iran is a Muslim majority State just as India is a Hindu majority state.
Gaza’s fate will be our own. Such unchecked evil has a way of normalizing bloodshed. The spineless complicity of democrats has brought us to this horror which will only escalate at the border, our Gaza.
Considering how brazen and reckless we are with Russia, maybe it will be the end of us, but no doubt the world as we know it.
Blame the Americans and their lackey, craven allies for the mess in Ukraine/Russia. And blame them for the mess in Palestine. All hegemonic game-playing of a very dangerous kind.
I agree!!!!!!!!!!!!
Correct. What we allow to be done to others we allow to be done to ourselves.
Not just Dems.
True, but if Trump were in charge, it would be socially acceptable among the upper classes to criticize the US administration which is the singular and indispensable enabler here
The republicans are way more pro Israel lol. Blank check city over there
Both give a blank check. Republicans hand it over without being asked first. Democrats put on a show for their supporters like they’re hesitating, but deliver the same packages of weapons and unconditional diplomatic support
OH. Please 'grow up!'
I understand what you are TRYING to say.
For a country of your magnitude (looking from the outside) ....Trump wins?
What the hell are you talking about?
Please write a longer passage so that 'we the people on earth' can understand.
I am not going to do this for you. You are not on Tic-Toc here.
The current administration is not complicit. It is a full participant.
Indeed ZOG.
Did having “their own state” make the Zionists safe? It did not. Of course, it’s a trick question. They’ve never had their own state, they’ve only had a state stolen from the Palestinians. Even a hermit crab generally has the good sense to wait till a shell is empty before it moves in.
Palestinians had their own state but that didn’t save them either because it was taken from them under the specious slogan: “A state without people for a people without a state.”
So, round and round it goes. Military power is not the answer because nations, empires, are most often destroyed from within, as Israel is collapsing now: not from lack of power, but from lack of a moral center. The American Empire will soon join them in the rear view mirror. Too much power and no moral center. In simple Greek: Hubris.
America behaves like a mafia state more than it behaves like a protector of liberties/democracy.
These days we can speak more about the godfather from Washington and less about the president of America.
That's because it is run by a couple mafias behind the scenes.
You can learn about the origins and means of the Sicilian mafia from a podcast published by Kings and Generals: https://youtu.be/gDv4xUuKKF0?si=t2IOYaYcdvx7D54Y
Thank you. The mafia that bothers me the most is the Jewish mafia in the U.S. But I will watch this.
Remember the USS Liberty...
I often wonder why this terrible betrayal was allowed to occur with impunity. It smells to High Heaven!
That region smells like 🛢️ oil.
What was the name of the other one that was drowned by Ansarallah this past week which no one is talking about? Eisenhower, wasn't it? How invincible is the US military!!!
Jesus, this is vapidity and so wrong, and not true to history.
ZIONISM is Jewish Supremacy. The lies about Jews being "mistreated" in the world for eons is because they had no state?
"To take this one step further, Jews have suffered enormously over time, in good part because they did not have their own state. Zionism, which is all about creating and maintaining a powerful Jewish state, was aimed at fixing this problem. One might think that a people who see themselves as “eternal victims” would have some measure of introspection and sympathy for the Palestinians — and given the Holocaust, be horrified by the mere possibility of genocide being committed in their name. But that is not happening."
+--+
Zion, this Jewish Murdering Raping Staving Poisoning Maiming Occupying Neurotic Religious Extremist State in Palestine is about a greater Israel, is about destroying Islam, dude.
Behind Israel’s ‘end game’ for Gaza: Theft of offshore gas reserves
The war on Gaza is also an Israeli drive to seize Palestinian gas reserves
+--+
THEFT and Perversion.
https://paulokirk.substack.com/p/harris-the-hellion-and-trump-the
The Palestinians may well get their own state - the world, especially the global south, is with them.
In fact there is a serious divide between the ordinary people of Europe and the heads of state, which may prove problematical for democracy - and the heads of state.
100%. There certainly is no help - or even a thought - from the Democratic Party. Biden is by far the most genocidal president, perhaps since they were the party of Black subjugation and lynchings. Looking back at their transformation, it's hard not to agree with Caitlin Johnstone: the empire is the issue. A step in a positive direction for America would be Jill Stein, but the DNC is doing everything is their power to keep her silenced. We are no better off in Canada (or in my second home, Italy). #freepalestine
Their own state is the only answer. All Palestinians are blamed for what Hamas did, yet Palestinians have no control over Hamas. They would have control over their own national security forces if they were a nation with its own soverignty.
In fact, Hamas was created by Israel to maintain Israeli government control over the imprisoned--for 75+ years--Palestinians. As primitive as this is and, maybe because of its stark savagery, this genocide will spark an opposite reaction: peaceful co-existence. Many peoples on the globe already embrace this concept, particularly in Asia. Someone, however, has to control the US Military Industrial Complex, which benefits greatly from its promotion of conflicts.. Maybe that's our job! Young people demonstrating (as my generation did against the Vietnam horror show) and rejecting "opportunities" to join the military are certainly doing their part.
Too true for comfort.
Henry Kissinger used to practice Realpolitik, but he got fuzzy there at the end where he suddenly thought taking Ukraine into NATO was a good idea. I have a feeling by then it was his trusty aides who were writing for him. We need a HUGE measure of realism now. I am not even sure we can avoid the catastrophe we have provoked around the globe with our endless weapons provisioning and war-prodding. The world is on edge, but few are the leaders.
He was sugar daddy to a dozen different war criminals. Never gave a lick about smaller nations.
His big realist moment was recognizing US couldn't beat China + Russia together, and then making a good offer to get China to come to the US side.
I'm a bit hesitant. Russia and China were also realpolitikers. I recall going to Honduras on the eve of the elections, in the 1980s (late) when party primaries were impending, and I had to dive in and get to know one party about to vote. From that moment, the OTHER party identified me as WITH the other party, and though I dined them in my home and enjoyed them, I became a football. I was this, or that, or not. But I was really nothing. Kissinger was not Svengali. Think of the nationalist corruption in those years that fed Kissinger's power -- not American thinking. It was REALPOLITIK. Morality -- not anywhere near there. In Vietnam, Laos, Burma -- corruption helped grease the US skids.
Kissinger was a realist, and he understood one cannot go backwards in time. Ukraine is in NATO, de facto, and this fact cannot be changed except by overwhelming conventional military force that Russia doesn’t have or nuclear force that Russia isn’t willing to use.
Ukraine exists today as a de facto NATO member, although somewhat smaller in size from original. Exact borders, of somewhat smaller Ukraine would be decided in negotiations, before the ceasefire in realist’s world
where did all that come from -- the mixture of fact and fantasy? Ukraine ain't in NATO and if you think it is, wait for the encirclement of Kursk and the wiping out of those forces. See if NATO declares war openly, like an honest organization, or just digs around in other people's shit looking for how to set it on fire. The US is the premier state sponsor of terrorism and a rogue nation that refuses to recognize international law. Its henchmen in Europe are just our lackeys, no sovereignty, no will of their own, and with their economies bending at the knees. The glorious warmaking west will get what it earns and though we must all pay for Americans' stupid arrogance, it will be worth it to see the mighty fall.
It’s realism.
"In such a world, the best way to survive is to have a state of your own and make sure that state has a lot of military power. This is what we realists call a self-help world."
Then the other guy has to do the same and what you get is ... what we've got.
That's the same logic that's made the US the biggest gun owning country in the world and given it the firearm death rate it has.
Nearly half of those firearm induced homicides are via suicide, and concentrated in a handful of zip codes, where drug-gang activity is highest (per FBI statistics).
And your point?
Fact is Americans keep buying guns because they're (rightly) terrified of all the Americans buying guns.
Whether they then use those guns to shoot themselves in an impulsive act that may not have happened if they'd had to take the time to find somewhere to tie a rope or their teenage son opens the gun safe and tops himself after his girlfriend dumps him or their toddler reaches into Mommy's handbag and inadvertently blew her head off in a supermarket or a dispute with a neighbor escalated to a lethal shootout or a cop blew him away because he couldn't see what he was reaching towards during a traffic stop and knew a lot of Americans have guns in their cars, the toe-tagged outcome is the same and the cause is the same. People substituting firepower for communication, lethality for security and weaponry for trust.
AIPAC OWNS CONGRESS
Israel is a state for some Jews but not for others. Read this substack from Jonathan Cook:
Jonathan Freedland rewrites history to hide an ugly truth about Israel
The Guardian columnist has to twist the story of the first Jew to escape Auschwitz because a true biography of Rudolf Vrba would expose the Zionist movement's collusion with the Nazis
JONATHAN COOK
AUG 25
The Palestinian state is coming right up. Isolated geographical location is a better protection than a military. Unfortunately everyone and his brother wants a piece of Palestine. But US imperialism and British colonialism are on their way out. The airport at Tel Aviv is closed for two days and it's friggin' CROWDED with American and European Jews trying to get the hell out. And this was just a little volley. What will they do when they face a serious attack, I wonder? Not even Netanyahu is safe. The Russians have weapons that can bust his bunker but good. Reminds me of the last days of Hitler. No wonder. The relationship between the Nazis and the Zionists was knicker-tight. Speaking of knickers, does Netanyahu have a mistress like Hitler did to keep his time in his hidey-hole copacetic?
This strategy only works if the state being created is governed by rational realists. It kind of falls apart when one side is willing to have its state bombed into oblivion and its people massacred simply to kill the other side. (Well, unless you don't actually give a crap if 10M Jews are massacred, incinerated or pushed off their land -- again.)
A 2 state requires both sides to be willing to live with the other as a neighbor. Absent that, it can also work if each is so afraid of the other they dare not antagonize them (that's MAD). Neither of those situations exist in Israel/Gaza/WB/Lebanon.
Thus, from a realist perspective, Israel will need to have military control over Gaza for the foreseeable future.