NATO will be 75 years old on 4 April 2024 — two days from now. Katrina vanden Heuvel, the editorial director and publisher of The Nation, organized a panel to discuss the state of NATO today. Pascal Lottaz is the moderator. The three discussants are Anatol Lieven, Ambassador Jack Matlock, and myself.
NATO is the spearhead of western aggression. It has no good reason to exist and plenty if bad ones. As long as NATO survives trouble will be stirred up to provide further excuses for its continued presence. Only through raising continual unwarranted fears can it promote itself as having anything approaching a job to do.
Why is it that so many people have to blame others rather than taking responsibility for their own actions or simply recognizing the random nature of life?
Interesting background. I'm envious if you got a proper British education and weren't excluded because of Sri Lankan father. We all have history, wish we would have been born into better circumstances, wonder "what if." I think focusing on the past too much is a problem in certain parts of the world. Learn from it, if possible, and move forward until you no longer can and that day comes to all of us. I know that is "trite" but I guess I'm in the mood for "trite" and as I said, I'm a bit envious.
One does not know alternative history. Had other courses of action been taken, results might have been worse. US citizens know the arguments as for why Russia feels put upon; or at least those who care to know and there aren't many.
I have long thought trotskyite clowns so very funny because they think they can lie and lie and lie about exactly who they are and what they are really up to and no one will ever notice and then as we see near the end of Mearsheimer's life no matter how weasely or deceptive no matter how deeply they penetrate to try to subvert from within they still are powerless and basically wasted their lives and everyone else's time. Now go back to telling us how NATO is oh-so-terrible Mr. West Point and how it is to blame for Russia's invasion of Ukraine you pathetic fuck.
i don't understand what you mean about the trotskyite clowns but i do agree that saying that nato justifies the russian invasion of ukraine is ridiculous. especially ridiculous when the same people that think invasion is justified if you feel threatened then start saying that israel shouldn't invade gaza. of course of course israel is committing genocide but if you can see this you should see that putin is committing genocide in ukraine. but chomsky told them that putin has a right to invade ukraine so they go along with it, just like trumpers following their leader no matter what he says
yes, russia of 11 time zones obviously never had an expansionist policy. i myself think god just kept dropping more and more land and peoples into moscow's lap. i am sure that's how it happened. all very nice and peaceful. but then nasty nato came along and all those dumb little countries living near peaceful russia wanted to join nato for unexplainable reasons. but katrina's group cleared it up.
You have noticed Israel is being ruled by an overtly racist and fascist coalition of venal, amoral thugs, international organized criminals and the religiously insane. A bit of a change since the early 1960s? (And seen some disquieting echoes of that power structure in the USA government too?)
Is it possible the focus and goals of those ruling the Russian Federation might have changed since the era of Katherine the Great? Aside from a well founded sensitivity to physical & political preparations for military incursions coming towards them from the West (and strong reactions to same), of course.
actually no, i do not see a difference in israel's policy. the policy was to push palestinians out of their (palestinians') country, either slowly or quickly. and they have been doing this since 45 or whenever they started officially as a country. so sorry, this example only bolsters my case
That's very perceptive of you, as a self identified Zionist. And something of a dissonance from my point of view.
If you are not aware of dates of events and the progression in the physical & legal/great power political struggles which resulted in the physical establishment of Israel, it might be useful to read history. As written both by the winners AND the less fortunate.
i am a self identified Zionist? who told you this? and i think 45 is very close to the official year. just after end of ww2, so what if i am a year or 2 off. putin is continuing the russian empire ideology just like israel has been dispossessing since 45 or 46 o 47, either more or less obviously
At this point, I realize we are working from a different set of "facts". Peace be upon you, and may you continue to grow, learn & understand new things.
As far as my analysis of your values & politics? Go look at your own list of comments & "likes" of others articles & comments. I did, you left those publicly visible.
i have never made one prozionist remark. so you are reading somebody else's comments likes etc. or listening devotedly to mearshimer which makes you stop reasoning clearly
i know, ukrainians have no right to decide their future. they are too weak to be allowed to decide for themselves. if russia is much bigger and more powerful it has the right to decide for ukrainians. so good of mearshimer to point this out again and again.
and wonderful of katrina to get a group together who all see this
1. "I understand, Cubans have no right to decide their future. They are too weak to be allowed to decide for themselves. If the United States is much larger and more powerful, it has the right to decide for Cubans."
2. "I get it, Palestinians have no right to decide their future. They are too weak to be allowed to decide for themselves. If Israel is much stronger and more influential, it has the right to decide for Palestinians."
3. "I see, Tibetans have no right to decide their future. They are too weak to be allowed to decide for themselves. If China is much larger and more powerful, it has the right to decide for Tibetans."
4. "I comprehend, Taiwanese have no right to decide their future. They are too weak to be allowed to decide for themselves. If China is much bigger and more powerful, it has the right to decide for Taiwanese."
5. "I realize, Afghans have no right to decide their future. They are too weak to be allowed to decide for themselves. If the United States is much larger and more powerful, it has the right to decide for Afghans."
6. "I acknowledge, Koreans have no right to decide their future. They are too weak to be allowed to decide for themselves. If Japan is much larger and more powerful, it has the right to decide for Koreans."
7. "I perceive, Irish have no right to decide their future. They are too weak to be allowed to decide for themselves. If England is much larger and more powerful, it has the right to decide for Irish."
8. "I grasp, Algerians have no right to decide their future. They are too weak to be allowed to decide for themselves. If France is much larger and more powerful, it has the right to decide for Algerians."
Jenny, that might have been a joke (to people as strange as I am). If you have not been following the Simplicius/Complexia personae, you might not be aware that some (mostly humorous) questioning occurs of exactly what/who is presenting their very intensively researched information (and now, the multi persona construct parsed, graphically enhanced analyses of various articles). Are we reading content generated by an AI or an organic? Individual, committee, cyborg or other augmented/composite entity? Not a clue. We just come for the free ice cream, so we're probably the product...
my dear simplexia, i was being sarcastic, i think this is the mearshimer logic. ukraine is so weak so just accept your masters the russians. strangely this mearshimer logic works for so many like you. but then if you transfer it to cuba, then strangely not so much. but if you were applying mearshimerese consistently yes all your examples would follow
"We should begin by acknowledging that the Russo-Ukrainian War is a novel experience for humankind. This is the first high intensity war between peer states to occur in the social media age. The content and pace of the information hitting the internet has therefore from the first moment been an aspect of the conflict itself. Ukraine, which is almost entirely dependent on foreign financing, intelligence, and weaponry, has from the beginning been hard at work shaping the story of a plucky underdog showing unexpected resilience against a barbaric invader."
Also, I am not sure if the people will understand or will be 100% sure whithout seeing first the seminar about War and International Politics (from NDISC).
Unfortunately, here again, John Mearsheimer is exactly correct. - - He’s batting a thousand because I have yet to see an instance where he hasn’t been exactly correct in his assessments, predictions and solutions.
If we had only been listening to him and hearing his advice we would have avoided a lot of death, destruction, pain and suffering.
Looking forward to it. NATO had become irrelevant so if an organization's importance defines it's happiness, I would describe it as a "Happy 75th Birthday." German military has remained down, the US in and Russia out so it's original objectives have sure been achieved as of today. What tomorrow will bring, I do not know.
NATO is the spearhead of western aggression. It has no good reason to exist and plenty if bad ones. As long as NATO survives trouble will be stirred up to provide further excuses for its continued presence. Only through raising continual unwarranted fears can it promote itself as having anything approaching a job to do.
NATO: MAKING FEAR PAY
Great discussion! Americans need to understand the history of how we got to this point with Russia.
Well hello!
You did not give a 'flying fu6k' what your politicians were doing as long as you could go SHOPPING and have all your toys.
Look up the voting records of the greatest DEMOCRACY in the world.
You sat back and enjoyed the American Dream while you screwed up most of S. America (and you wonder why you have so many immigrants)!
S. America + Iraq + Syria +Afghanistan etc etc etc.
Why is it that so many people have to blame others rather than taking responsibility for their own actions or simply recognizing the random nature of life?
ANY Colonial power KNEW exactly what they were doing at the time.
I was born into Colonialism with British mother and father in Sri Lanka.
Taking responsibility: It would take years and years to account for the problems in the world due to colonialism.
Blame is NOT a word I use but an apology is good.
Interesting background. I'm envious if you got a proper British education and weren't excluded because of Sri Lankan father. We all have history, wish we would have been born into better circumstances, wonder "what if." I think focusing on the past too much is a problem in certain parts of the world. Learn from it, if possible, and move forward until you no longer can and that day comes to all of us. I know that is "trite" but I guess I'm in the mood for "trite" and as I said, I'm a bit envious.
One does not know alternative history. Had other courses of action been taken, results might have been worse. US citizens know the arguments as for why Russia feels put upon; or at least those who care to know and there aren't many.
In short, the entire planet is like an engine (so to speak) and if one of its parts fails, the entire engine fails.
Just because the US fails does not mean China/Russia/Iran will fail!
I absolutely agree with you. But there is a danger that, in its fall, the US could provoke a third world war.
Possibly.
I have long thought trotskyite clowns so very funny because they think they can lie and lie and lie about exactly who they are and what they are really up to and no one will ever notice and then as we see near the end of Mearsheimer's life no matter how weasely or deceptive no matter how deeply they penetrate to try to subvert from within they still are powerless and basically wasted their lives and everyone else's time. Now go back to telling us how NATO is oh-so-terrible Mr. West Point and how it is to blame for Russia's invasion of Ukraine you pathetic fuck.
YOU dear Eric. Need to do some reading!
Eric only WRITES, he doesn't read divergent information. And he will block you shortly. Does not like being disagreed with...
i don't understand what you mean about the trotskyite clowns but i do agree that saying that nato justifies the russian invasion of ukraine is ridiculous. especially ridiculous when the same people that think invasion is justified if you feel threatened then start saying that israel shouldn't invade gaza. of course of course israel is committing genocide but if you can see this you should see that putin is committing genocide in ukraine. but chomsky told them that putin has a right to invade ukraine so they go along with it, just like trumpers following their leader no matter what he says
yes, russia of 11 time zones obviously never had an expansionist policy. i myself think god just kept dropping more and more land and peoples into moscow's lap. i am sure that's how it happened. all very nice and peaceful. but then nasty nato came along and all those dumb little countries living near peaceful russia wanted to join nato for unexplainable reasons. but katrina's group cleared it up.
You have noticed Israel is being ruled by an overtly racist and fascist coalition of venal, amoral thugs, international organized criminals and the religiously insane. A bit of a change since the early 1960s? (And seen some disquieting echoes of that power structure in the USA government too?)
Is it possible the focus and goals of those ruling the Russian Federation might have changed since the era of Katherine the Great? Aside from a well founded sensitivity to physical & political preparations for military incursions coming towards them from the West (and strong reactions to same), of course.
actually no, i do not see a difference in israel's policy. the policy was to push palestinians out of their (palestinians') country, either slowly or quickly. and they have been doing this since 45 or whenever they started officially as a country. so sorry, this example only bolsters my case
That's very perceptive of you, as a self identified Zionist. And something of a dissonance from my point of view.
If you are not aware of dates of events and the progression in the physical & legal/great power political struggles which resulted in the physical establishment of Israel, it might be useful to read history. As written both by the winners AND the less fortunate.
i am a self identified Zionist? who told you this? and i think 45 is very close to the official year. just after end of ww2, so what if i am a year or 2 off. putin is continuing the russian empire ideology just like israel has been dispossessing since 45 or 46 o 47, either more or less obviously
At this point, I realize we are working from a different set of "facts". Peace be upon you, and may you continue to grow, learn & understand new things.
As far as my analysis of your values & politics? Go look at your own list of comments & "likes" of others articles & comments. I did, you left those publicly visible.
i have never made one prozionist remark. so you are reading somebody else's comments likes etc. or listening devotedly to mearshimer which makes you stop reasoning clearly
Here are tabular, visual, and textual breakdowns and summaries of that discussion:
https://open.substack.com/pub/complexiathesinker/p/llm-over-destroying-peace-since-1949
Advice of Prof. John Mearsheimer to NATO (LLM extracted):
1) Sever the West security relationship with Ukraine.
2) Push the Ukrainians immediately to start serious negotiations with the Russians.
3) Get out of the business of fostering color Revolutions in Eastern Europe.
4) Recognize that Russia is not a threat to conquer all of Ukraine much less conquer countries in Eastern Europe.
5) Radically change our policies because it is not only in Ukraine's interest but also in the interests of Western Europe and Eastern Europe.
I’m curious, which other commentators and sites do you provide this analysis for?
And, yes, we think that there should be a web service that allows anyone to get those LLM summaries and breakdowns over any specified content.
(We are researching what would the development and _running_ of such service entail.)
We are still trying to formulate a consistent strategy...
We started doing those LLM extractions because we need more direct references for some of the war modeling we want to do.
Right now, we make an LLM extraction post because one of us has decided that:
1) A certain video program is interesting or insightful (and, perhaps, too long)
2) An article is good/informative and its wisdom has to be more explicitly stated
3) A political speech or court decision is too important
Examples:
1) This video, with Prof. Mearsheimer
2) "The Attritional Art of War", https://complexiathesinker.substack.com/p/llm-over-the-attritional-art-of-war
3) "Trump vs Anderson", https://complexiathesinker.substack.com/p/llm-over-trump-vs-anderson
One of the points you overlooked here is that the USA is owned by AIPAC.
i know, ukrainians have no right to decide their future. they are too weak to be allowed to decide for themselves. if russia is much bigger and more powerful it has the right to decide for ukrainians. so good of mearshimer to point this out again and again.
and wonderful of katrina to get a group together who all see this
This is thoughtful and thought-provoking. It applies to other country pairs.
We fed it to an LLM in this way:
-----------------------------------------------------
Change the following statements with other historically relevant country-pairs:
"i know, ukrainians have no right to decide their future.
they are too weak to be allowed to decide for themselves.
if russia is much bigger and more powerful it has the right to decide for ukrainians."
Give at least eight such modifications.
-----------------------------------------------------
Here is the result:
1. "I understand, Cubans have no right to decide their future. They are too weak to be allowed to decide for themselves. If the United States is much larger and more powerful, it has the right to decide for Cubans."
2. "I get it, Palestinians have no right to decide their future. They are too weak to be allowed to decide for themselves. If Israel is much stronger and more influential, it has the right to decide for Palestinians."
3. "I see, Tibetans have no right to decide their future. They are too weak to be allowed to decide for themselves. If China is much larger and more powerful, it has the right to decide for Tibetans."
4. "I comprehend, Taiwanese have no right to decide their future. They are too weak to be allowed to decide for themselves. If China is much bigger and more powerful, it has the right to decide for Taiwanese."
5. "I realize, Afghans have no right to decide their future. They are too weak to be allowed to decide for themselves. If the United States is much larger and more powerful, it has the right to decide for Afghans."
6. "I acknowledge, Koreans have no right to decide their future. They are too weak to be allowed to decide for themselves. If Japan is much larger and more powerful, it has the right to decide for Koreans."
7. "I perceive, Irish have no right to decide their future. They are too weak to be allowed to decide for themselves. If England is much larger and more powerful, it has the right to decide for Irish."
8. "I grasp, Algerians have no right to decide their future. They are too weak to be allowed to decide for themselves. If France is much larger and more powerful, it has the right to decide for Algerians."
Err, that's a lot of AI response to one pro Ukrainian snippy sorta slightly semi Swiftian satire. Probably several joules (thermal) were required?
Speak English if you want to be heard!
Jenny, that might have been a joke (to people as strange as I am). If you have not been following the Simplicius/Complexia personae, you might not be aware that some (mostly humorous) questioning occurs of exactly what/who is presenting their very intensively researched information (and now, the multi persona construct parsed, graphically enhanced analyses of various articles). Are we reading content generated by an AI or an organic? Individual, committee, cyborg or other augmented/composite entity? Not a clue. We just come for the free ice cream, so we're probably the product...
my dear simplexia, i was being sarcastic, i think this is the mearshimer logic. ukraine is so weak so just accept your masters the russians. strangely this mearshimer logic works for so many like you. but then if you transfer it to cuba, then strangely not so much. but if you were applying mearshimerese consistently yes all your examples would follow
Obviously you can not deal with reality! I guess the propaganda machine is working well (from your comment).
"We should begin by acknowledging that the Russo-Ukrainian War is a novel experience for humankind. This is the first high intensity war between peer states to occur in the social media age. The content and pace of the information hitting the internet has therefore from the first moment been an aspect of the conflict itself. Ukraine, which is almost entirely dependent on foreign financing, intelligence, and weaponry, has from the beginning been hard at work shaping the story of a plucky underdog showing unexpected resilience against a barbaric invader."
https://bigserge.substack.com/p/the-russo-ukrainian-war?utm_medium=reader2
US propaganda against the Russians/Chinese has been in full flow since........who know how long and the American people have swallowed it whole.
Take a look at Ukraine and tell me why:
American weapons/support for Ukraine are even there.
They are not in NATO so why are any country providing them with weapons?
The French are pulling out of Algeria as we speak.
USA will not pull out of Iraq or Niger.
Rome didn't want to leave Britain either. Or Gaul. Or finally, Byzantium.
What has this got to do with NOW?
Are you planning to order a cake for NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg... and then have a bikini-clad Sergey Lavrov jump out of it?
I want NATO demolished. It is an old antiquated MACHINE run by the USA
Similarly I don't want the EU to grow larger.
The main point of all this rubbish I see is that Israel has quitely taken over the world with money.
America has NOT been a Democracy since Reagan and I have absolutely NO idea why the Europeans keep clinging to this fantasy!
Despite Macron and his 'walk the talk' we know here in France that the young people will NOT be fighting for a Nazi country!
Your dreams are mine.
Here is a related post with birthday cake images:
https://open.substack.com/pub/complexiathesinker/p/img-natos-75th-anniversary
Excellence. And thanks for the shout out.
Thanks! And our pleasure...
Also, I am not sure if the people will understand or will be 100% sure whithout seeing first the seminar about War and International Politics (from NDISC).
It is a must see.
What these panelists don't get is that while the West is aggressive and untrustworthy, both Russia and China are much, much worse.
Should have admitted Ukraine to NATO regardless of whether were ready or not.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/qWlMYzjbG_o
Sally Paine did not advocate that, but she is right about Russia.
there’s a country can’t be named
or its people ever blamed
if you name them you’ll be shamed
then unpersoned and defamed
.
chosen ones can do no wrong
news control is very strong
contrary views don’t last long
one way that they fool the throng
.
can’t point out they have power
deplatformed within an hour
our free speech can not flower
when wilted by their glower
.
they are petty and extreme
crucify you for a meme
as unfair as that may seem
opposite of what they deem
.
mention men in tiny hats
even in your private chats
its heard by their deep state rats
then decried by democrats
.
they’re political third rail
touching it will make you flail
no matter from where you hail
they will get you thrown in jail
.
The Worlds Most Dangerous Poet
Unfortunately, here again, John Mearsheimer is exactly correct. - - He’s batting a thousand because I have yet to see an instance where he hasn’t been exactly correct in his assessments, predictions and solutions.
If we had only been listening to him and hearing his advice we would have avoided a lot of death, destruction, pain and suffering.
Let's hope it's their last one!!!
Looking forward to it. NATO had become irrelevant so if an organization's importance defines it's happiness, I would describe it as a "Happy 75th Birthday." German military has remained down, the US in and Russia out so it's original objectives have sure been achieved as of today. What tomorrow will bring, I do not know.